Let's hear it.

I am tired of hearing about Tom Brady. Is he the best ever or is he just fortunate enough to play with great supporting cast?

Has to be Brady at this point. Montana second.

08GatorBait wrote:Has to be Brady at this point. Montana second.

He has the hardware for sure, but I can name 20+ QB's who could win on those teams. It's kind of like calling Aikman a good QB when he had phenomenal OL, RB and WR. Hell, Terry Bradshaw pretty much brags about being average but he had great weapons.

I know Brady is #1, I'm just curious if anyone thinks he the greatest hands down.

I judge greatness by quantifying the surrounding offensive talent. The rules for defense. The division they play in. And what they actually meant to the nfl because of how they played, meaning did defenses have to create and or make a new style tl defend.

I don't have a particular order as i think each was as important as the other. I don't think putting an order to them has a right or wrong sequence.

Dan Marino
Johnny Unitas
John Elway
Tom Brady
Steve McNair
Jim Kelly
Randall Cunningham

To be honest, I'd like to see Brady without Bill to determine if he's GOAT. Bill has made so many bad QBs look GOAT over the years (Not saying Brady is bad of course)

Manning.

Carr2Cooper wrote:To be honest, I'd like to see Brady without Bill to determine if he's GOAT. Bill has made so many bad QBs look GOAT over the years (Not saying Brady is bad of course)

Well, he was fired his first go round and took over a Superbowl runner up with Bledsoe at the helm.

As good a coach as BB is, without Brady he didn't make the playoffs after going undefeated the previous season with the same team.

Brady made BB. Look no further than last year's Superbowl.

ericberry14 wrote:Manning.

Sucked.

Thank goodness for Tee Martin or Tennessee would have been that much more irrelevant in college as it always has been.

Jezter13 wrote:

ericberry14 wrote:Manning.

Sucked.

Thank goodness for Tee Martin or Tennessee would have been that much more irrelevant in college as it always has been.

Nah bro, he was taking about Eli

Jezter13 wrote:

Carr2Cooper wrote:To be honest, I'd like to see Brady without Bill to determine if he's GOAT. Bill has made so many bad QBs look GOAT over the years (Not saying Brady is bad of course)

Well, he was fired his first go round and took over a Superbowl runner up with Bledsoe at the helm.

As good a coach as BB is, without Brady he didn't make the playoffs after going undefeated the previous season with the same team.

Brady made BB. Look no further than last year's Superbowl.

It was the Browns...when was the last time they were relevant to anything?

Bill went 11-5 with Matt Cassell, Matt Guiterrez, and Kevin O'Connell as his QBs. Can you tell me without looking it up what any of those QBs are doing these days?

They are the 1st team ever to win 11 games during the 12 team playoff to not make the playoffs with 11 wins.

Jezter13 wrote:I judge greatness by quantifying the surrounding offensive talent. The rules for defense. The division they play in. And what they actually meant to the nfl because of how they played, meaning did defenses have to create and or make a new style tl defend.

I don't have a particular order as i think each was as important as the other. I don't think putting an order to them has a right or wrong sequence.

Dan Marino
Johnny Unitas
John Elway
Tom Brady
Steve McNair
Jim Kelly
Randall Cunningham

Good list - I would add Montana, Manning, Favre. I think any of these QB's (and probably more) could do well if you swapped Brady for them.

Jezter13 wrote:

ericberry14 wrote:Manning.

Sucked.

Thank goodness for Tee Martin or Tennessee would have been that much more irrelevant in college as it always has been.

You’re a dumbass if you think Peyton Manning sucked. Sorry dude

Carr2Cooper wrote:

Jezter13 wrote:

Carr2Cooper wrote:To be honest, I'd like to see Brady without Bill to determine if he's GOAT. Bill has made so many bad QBs look GOAT over the years (Not saying Brady is bad of course)

Well, he was fired his first go round and took over a Superbowl runner up with Bledsoe at the helm.

As good a coach as BB is, without Brady he didn't make the playoffs after going undefeated the previous season with the same team.

Brady made BB. Look no further than last year's Superbowl.

It was the Browns...when was the last time they were relevant to anything?

Bill went 11-5 with Matt Cassell, Matt Guiterrez, and Kevin O'Connell as his QBs. Can you tell me without looking it up what any of those QBs are doing these days?

They are the 1st team ever to win 11 games during the 12 team playoff to not make the playoffs with 11 wins.

I have. Heard that weak argument for years.

Funny, BB wasn't so smart with Crennel and Weiss for years. It wasn't until he found people that could run his defense that the defense actually became good again. All that time, Brady was carrying the water.

You named qbs, wooop-dee-doo. He had success one time in a span of 15 years but still didn't make the playoffs. The team set scoring records and went undefeated the year prior missed the playoffs and was average on offense. Coincidence? In a weak division? Nope.

I like BB. But he isn't Bill Walsh or Don Shula. He absolutely lucked into Brady, hence his being on the bench whils Bledsoe was being average.

"It was the browns". So, what? Great coach would have made them better, no? He is. a top notch coach. Definitely top 10. Maybe top 5-7. But he isn't the reason for the Pats success. Especially when you consider how absolutely barren of talent the offense has been outside of Brady for the entire run.

FSUKW wrote:

Jezter13 wrote:I judge greatness by quantifying the surrounding offensive talent. The rules for defense. The division they play in. And what they actually meant to the nfl because of how they played, meaning did defenses have to create and or make a new style tl defend.

I don't have a particular order as i think each was as important as the other. I don't think putting an order to them has a right or wrong sequence.

Dan Marino
Johnny Unitas
John Elway
Tom Brady
Steve McNair
Jim Kelly
Randall Cunningham

Good list - I would add Montana, Manning, Favre. I think any of these QB's (and probably more) could do well if you swapped Brady for them.

Montana was decent. But not great until he was surrounded by Walsb and all the Hall of Famers that made it easy for the likes of Grbac, Young, Garcia, etc to throw for probowl like numberz in an era that only the really goid ones could.

Favre threw more interceptions than anyone in history of the gsme. Doing so with a great OL and Top Flight wrs anc runners. He threw more than anyone during his time too. Watching Rodgers step in and nothing changed? Nahhh.

Manning is the prime example of why the nfl sucks today. They changed the rules in 2004 so hs could stop getting his ass handed fo him in the playoffs and provide him an opportunity to not continue being one and done. His numbers were average until that rule change too. He played in ths weakest division in football after the texans were franchsed too. Another of his whines. Anyone question how it is and why it is the Coltz ended up in ths afc south as opposed to ths phins? And Don't say because the jaguars and same state, seeing as the jets and bills play inter-divisional.


I cannot argue your opinion, it is yours and there's truly no wrong answer when discussing these kinds of things, but I would never put them on my team.

As an example, before I'd consider them? I'd have Warren Moon, Donovan McNabb, Dan Fouts, Fran Tarkenton etc.

Like i said, i consider surrounding talent, conference and their direct effect on the game.

ericberry14 wrote:

Jezter13 wrote:

ericberry14 wrote:Manning.

Sucked.

Thank goodness for Tee Martin or Tennessee would have been that much more irrelevant in college as it always has been.

You’re a dumbass if you think Peyton Manning sucked. Sorry dude

I know he sucked.

Hence his blaming everyone else when he lost games in the playoffs and has less to show for his career than a host of other players that never received the hype.

He is the Shillary Clindum of the nfl.

:facepalm that brain tumor is acting up again

FSUKW wrote:

08GatorBait wrote:Has to be Brady at this point. Montana second.

He has the hardware for sure, but I can name 20+ QB's who could win on those teams. It's kind of like calling Aikman a good QB when he had phenomenal OL, RB and WR. Hell, Terry Bradshaw pretty much brags about being average but he had great weapons.

I know Brady is #1, I'm just curious if anyone thinks he the greatest hands down.

He really hasn't had the offensive talent though. His groupings of WR's have been a bunch of six foot white guys for awhile. He only had one group of elite WR's, and he almost went unbeaten.

Jezter13 wrote:

Carr2Cooper wrote:

Jezter13 wrote:

Carr2Cooper wrote:To be honest, I'd like to see Brady without Bill to determine if he's GOAT. Bill has made so many bad QBs look GOAT over the years (Not saying Brady is bad of course)

Well, he was fired his first go round and took over a Superbowl runner up with Bledsoe at the helm.

As good a coach as BB is, without Brady he didn't make the playoffs after going undefeated the previous season with the same team.

Brady made BB. Look no further than last year's Superbowl.

It was the Browns...when was the last time they were relevant to anything?

Bill went 11-5 with Matt Cassell, Matt Guiterrez, and Kevin O'Connell as his QBs. Can you tell me without looking it up what any of those QBs are doing these days?

They are the 1st team ever to win 11 games during the 12 team playoff to not make the playoffs with 11 wins.

I have. Heard that weak argument for years.

Funny, BB wasn't so smart with Crennel and Weiss for years. It wasn't until he found people that could run his defense that the defense actually became good again. All that time, Brady was carrying the water.

You named qbs, wooop-dee-doo. He had success one time in a span of 15 years but still didn't make the playoffs. The team set scoring records and went undefeated the year prior missed the playoffs and was average on offense. Coincidence? In a weak division? Nope.

I like BB. But he isn't Bill Walsh or Don Shula. He absolutely lucked into Brady, hence his being on the bench whils Bledsoe was being average.

"It was the browns". So, what? Great coach would have made them better, no? He is. a top notch coach. Definitely top 10. Maybe top 5-7. But he isn't the reason for the Pats success. Especially when you consider how absolutely barren of talent the offense has been outside of Brady for the entire run.

11-5 with those 3 QBs and missed the playoffs because of tiebreaker rules...

The losses that year were 1 Dolphins, 1 Steelers, 1 Jets, 1 Chargers, and 1 Colts...4 teams that made the playoffs that year and they absolutely shit on Arizona in Week 16.

While Brady is top 3 QB all time, what would he do without Bill as his coach? It was a match made in Heaven for both of them.

ericberry14 wrote::facepalm that brain tumor is acting up again

Fucking faggot.

08GatorBait wrote:

FSUKW wrote:

08GatorBait wrote:Has to be Brady at this point. Montana second.

He has the hardware for sure, but I can name 20+ QB's who could win on those teams. It's kind of like calling Aikman a good QB when he had phenomenal OL, RB and WR. Hell, Terry Bradshaw pretty much brags about being average but he had great weapons.

I know Brady is #1, I'm just curious if anyone thinks he the greatest hands down.

He really hasn't had the offensive talent though. His groupings of WR's have been a bunch of six foot white guys for awhile. He only had one group of elite WR's, and he almost went unbeaten.

He had Dion Branch for a long time and he had Troy Brown before that